Olds 3
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Reference Notes
The Olds 3 is a medium-deep-cup Bb trumpet mouthpiece featuring a 16.7mm rim diameter and 3.7mm throat. It has a medium-large backbore, standard shank. Well-suited for orchestral playing. This model has been discontinued. Use these measurements as a comparison starting point: fit and response still depend on the player, dental structure, instrument receiver, and each manufacturer's measuring method.
⚠️ Critical Note Before You Buy
The Olds “3” is not a Bach 3C equivalent. Despite the matching number, it is a small-diameter, shallow, high-compression mouthpiece — closer to a Bach 10½C than a Bach 3C. A player switching from a Bach 3C will feel an immediate jump in resistance and a significant reduction in lip room. The shared number is a historical coincidence — Olds numbered their lineup entirely differently from Bach.
Olds 3 vs Bach 3C — Side by Side
| Olds 3 | Bach 3C | |
|---|---|---|
| Inner rim diameter | ~15.90–16.00 mm | 16.30 mm |
| Cup depth | Shallow (D/E cup depth range) | Medium bowl |
| Feel | Small, tight, high resistance | Open, warm, medium resistance |
| Sound | Bright, focused, efficient | Full, round, orchestral |
| Closest modern equivalent | Bach 10½C / Schilke 5 | — |
What It Sounds Like
The Olds 3 has a distinctive sound that doesn’t fit neatly into modern categories. At low volumes: slightly breathy, characterful, “scuffed” jazz rasp — especially on vintage Olds instruments. When pushed: bright, punchy, cutting — projects well through a section. In the upper register: secure slotting, efficient, easier to centre than many modern pieces of similar diameter. Overall: focused and directional, not spread. Less “round” than a Bach 3C. This specific combination made it the default mouthpiece for mid-century American school bands, and later a specialist choice for commercial lead players and jazz musicians who value efficiency over orchestral warmth.
Who Is It For?
| Player Type | Verdict |
|---|---|
| Lead players in big band or ska | ✅ High-register efficiency, good slotting |
| Jazz players wanting vintage character | ✅ Nat Adderley used it (filed to his preference) |
| Players with thinner lips or lighter embouchure | ✅ Sharp bite provides grip and feedback |
| Players on a vintage Olds Ambassador / Super | ✅ Designed specifically for these leadpipes |
| Students on a modern Yamaha or Bach trumpet | ⚠️ Intonation can be unstable — leadpipe mismatch |
| Orchestral players wanting full, warm sound | ❌ Wrong tool — too small and bright |
| Players with thick lips or high-pressure technique | ❌ Risk of bottoming out in the cup |
| Players moving from a Bach 3C expecting similar feel | ❌ Very different — try before assuming |
The Leadpipe Coupling Issue
The Olds 3 was engineered to match the specific leadpipe taper of vintage Olds trumpets — especially Fullerton-era Ambassadors, Supers, and Recordings. Olds used custom mandrels and held their leadpipe dimensions to tight tolerances. When you put the Olds 3 into a modern trumpet with a wider, more open leadpipe (Bach Stradivarius, Yamaha Xeno, etc.), the high-resistance mouthpiece is no longer balanced by the instrument’s internal geometry. The result: erratic intonation and a feeling of fighting the equipment. This is why some modern players report the Olds 3 as “unplayable” while vintage Olds players swear by it.
If you’re on a vintage Olds horn, this is likely the mouthpiece it was designed for. If you’re on a modern instrument, try before committing.
History — Know Which Version You're Buying
| Era | Location | What It Is |
|---|---|---|
| Pre-1954 (Los Angeles) | LA | Hand-finished, sometimes handmade. Variations exist. Rare. |
| 1954–1978 (Fullerton) | Fullerton, CA | Standardised production. Consistent specs. The "real" Olds 3. |
| Post-1978 (NEMC era) | Various | Brand sold to NEMC. Pieces are stencil mouthpieces by Blessing — NOT the same mouthpiece. Follow Bach 3C geometry. |
The post-1978 “Olds 3C” and “Olds 3” are entirely different instruments from the Fullerton originals. When buying vintage, look for: cursive or block “Olds” stamp, silver plate consistent with pre-1978 production.
Artist Connection
Nat Adderley
Jazz cornetist (Cannonball Adderley’s brother). Used an Olds No. 3 on his King Master Silver Sonic cornet, with the rim filed down to his personal preference. The fact that a professional of his level used it as a base for custom modification speaks to its quality as a platform.
Modern Alternatives
| Alternative | What It Offers |
|---|---|
| Kanstul 10 (discontinued) | Direct copy of the Fullerton Olds 3. Now discontinued (Kanstul closed). Still appears used. |
| Legends Brass vintage-inspired | Takes Olds 3 geometry, updates throat and backbore for modern horns |
| Mark Curry custom | Replicates Olds 3 shank/cup geometry, also covers older large-shank cornets |
| Bach 10½D | Similar diameter (15.90 mm), more accessible, modern production |
Common Questions
Is the Olds 3 the same as the Bach 3C?
No. They share nothing except the number 3. Olds numbered their lineup independently from Bach. See the comparison table above.
Why does my Olds 3 play out of tune on my Yamaha?
The mouthpiece was designed for vintage Olds leadpipe tapers. A modern, more open leadpipe changes the acoustic balance. Not a defective mouthpiece — a mismatched pairing.
I found one at an estate sale. Is it real?
Probably yes if stamped "Olds" and looks pre-1978. Fullerton-era pieces are plentiful. Avoid anything stamped "Olds 3C" — that's the post-1978 stencil version.
Should a student use an Olds 3?
Only if they have an underdeveloped embouchure and need help centring the upper register. Once developed, the small diameter can feel limiting. Most modern teachers prefer a 7C or 3C for beginners.
F.E. Olds & Son · Original production ended 1978. Brand now owned separately. Specs sourced from vintage dealer listings, Reddit/TrumpetHerald forum data, Robb Stewart Brass, and historical Olds documentation.